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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 6, 2016 8:31:02 GMT -5
I'll kick it off...general thoughts and overall feelings about Bunbury 2016.
Overall: Great festival, went much smoother than last year despite some early concerns.
The Good: Once resolved, the bracelets were great. Lines moved very fast and I don't think I waited more than ten minutes for anything. Plenty of vendors (beer and food) to reduce lines and the prices weren't too bad. Bathroom and water lines moved really fast too. Things seemed rather sanitary. The Killers and Florence were probably the best talents they've ever had at the festival and Sunday night Flo absolutely killed it. I was also impressed with how the crowd responded to some of the undercards, packing in for these bands and really enjoying themselves. The video screens on the main stage were AWESOME and I was really impressed with the camera work this year. I could see very clearly from waaaaay back in the back. Also really cool was that they showed the feed from the main stage on the second stage between acts. So I was able to watch Haim and Lany while waiting for other bands to take the stage. VIP looked awesome from what I could tell, I'll have to have someone else report from the inside. I also thought they did a great job handling the rain delays. I think only a couple of acts go cut short and they pushed one or two back 20 minutes. No cancellations or major disruptions to the schedules.
The "meh": They got rid of the screen and speaker tower that used to be behind the main stage sound booth. I was kind of relying on that since I didn't go VIP this year. Didn't end up being a big deal though. Early issues with the network that ran the wristbands the first day but that was resolved by 3pm. My biggest complaint was the sound at the River Stage for the early bands. I saw a couple of terrible sets as a result. Forgetting to turn on microphones, massive feedback, unbalanced sound. I get that early bands don't get a lot of sound checking, but it shouldn't be hard to mic up a 4 piece rock band and just push the faders as they play. That was kind of baffling (Automagik really struggled with their sound guy, I could go into detail but I'm done being frustrated by it). My last minor complaint was about the exit. Last few years, they opened up the side gate next to the Purple People bridge to relieve some foot traffic. This year they really fought us on that and made us go all the way back to the main entrance.
Surprise Performance: For me, Grimes was way better than I expected. She was a ton of fun. And Here Come the Mummies were an absolute riot, wish they could have had more time.
That's all I got for now!
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Post by jenk on Jun 6, 2016 8:43:08 GMT -5
All I have to say is this weekend was just amazing. I'm still on cloud nine from it. Flo closing out the fest was the best decision PW could've made. It's a good thing she played last because she tore the place down. It was nearly a religious experience. Just amazing.
The Killers were right there too. I wish we would've had a better view for them, but we didn't get to VIP early enough for that. But the fireworks during their set was so magical.
VIP was awesome. Don't think we will ever not have VIP for this fest.
I will come back to post about the rest of the artists, but those are my immediate thoughts.
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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 6, 2016 12:40:42 GMT -5
All I have to say is this weekend was just amazing. I'm still on cloud nine from it. Flo closing out the fest was the best decision PW could've made. It's a good thing she played last because she tore the place down. It was nearly a religious experience. Just amazing. The Killers were right there too. I wish we would've had a better view for them, but we didn't get to VIP early enough for that. But the fireworks during their set was so magical. VIP was awesome. Don't think we will ever not have VIP for this fest. I will come back to post about the rest of the artists, but those are my immediate thoughts. What were the prices for beer and food in the VIP? I'm about to do the math on what I spent this weekend and I'm thinking cheaper beer in VIP would be worth the ticket price considering how much I imbibbed. |
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Post by evenpjflow on Jun 6, 2016 12:46:05 GMT -5
I ran into no issues with the wristband. I know it sounds like others did, of course Facebook is blowing up about it. But anyways not being someone who ran into any problem with their I thought it was fast and kept lines small. I had a blast all weekend again, like I had expected too. Didnt wait in any lines after the initial gate open. Saw some great music. Hung with friends. It was an overall great time again. Next year I'll be getting VIP though.
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Post by jenk on Jun 6, 2016 13:10:52 GMT -5
All I have to say is this weekend was just amazing. I'm still on cloud nine from it. Flo closing out the fest was the best decision PW could've made. It's a good thing she played last because she tore the place down. It was nearly a religious experience. Just amazing. The Killers were right there too. I wish we would've had a better view for them, but we didn't get to VIP early enough for that. But the fireworks during their set was so magical. VIP was awesome. Don't think we will ever not have VIP for this fest. I will come back to post about the rest of the artists, but those are my immediate thoughts. What were the prices for beer and food in the VIP? I'm about to do the math on what I spent this weekend and I'm thinking cheaper beer in VIP would be worth the ticket price considering how much I imbibbed. Beers in VIP were $3.25, but only had Miller Lite and Summer Shandy. Red Bulls were $2.25. Water/Gatorade was $1.25. The food was free. Each day they had a different spread for lunch/dinner and kept it supplied for a couple of hours. Friday - chicken/steak skewers with veggies, burgers, fruit, pasta salad, dessert stuff Saturday - three way/cheese coney set up with hot dogs and pasta, dessert stuff Sunday - Pulled pork, mac & cheese, pasta salad and potato salad, dessert stuff We didn't purchase any food at all except on Sunday when the kid wanted a slice of pizza and ice cream. Other than that, we only purchased drinks. There were no performances in the tent, but there was a DJ. Regularly saw artists in there (Mowgli's, Grizzfolk, Nick Lachey, and a few others). Funny story, when we were waiting for the meet & greet with the Wombats, we were down by the river by the dressing rooms and I saw a band (couldn't recognize who they were), but they were all standing there looking at the water. I snapped a nice candid and we moved on. Later that night before the Killers, I saw one of them and approached him, told him I took a pic of them and showed him. He asked if I would send it to him, gave me his number, and I sent it to him. I asked him what band he was from, and he said Grizzfolk. I invited the Wombats to go out with us after the show. They said they would have if didn't have to leave at 9pm that night for Cali the next night. |
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Post by jenk on Jun 6, 2016 13:24:18 GMT -5
Grizzfolk by the river  The Wombats meet & greet.  |
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Post by euro60 on Jun 6, 2016 13:51:53 GMT -5
General observations: the wristbands worked well, and was a 100% improvement over last year's disaster to get in.
Not a big fan of the cashless system, though, and not just because they charge you $2 for the privilege of me using my own money, and another $3.50 for the privilege of refunding to me any unused money that was my money in the first place. And it's not just the fact that the fees applied, it's also the fact that (i) we were never told about this beforehand and (ii) there was no 'choice' to do something else. Bad, bad, bad.
Going to only 3 stages was disappointing, as it resulted in yet less bands. The fun of music festivals is to walk around and check bands on the fly and move on when you've had enough. Can't do that at Bunbury as AT MOST two bands are playing at the same time, and half of the time there is only one band playing. And to not replace Tears for Fears, even though they had 2+ weeks to find a replacement, is inexcusable in my opinion, and left Sunday beyond thin.
Don't the organizers realize that the Sawyer Point Stage is MILES better for big crowds than the current Main Stage? I am blown away that they still have the headliners perform at the current main stage.
BEST SET of the festival (for me): Big Grams. A sweet spot between indie-pop and rap, Big Boi and Phantogram's Sarah Barthel put on a great show, seemed like Sarah was enjoying the hell out of it. I know I was.
BIGGEST LETDOWN: Ice Cube. I realize that socially he (and N.W.A.) is important and all, but musically speaking, it did absolutely nothing for me. It's hard to even call it music, frankly, as there's little more audible than a bass sound, over which he raps (and you can't make out a single word of that in any event).
HEADSCRATCHER: totally non-plussed by HAIM. Can someone explain to me why HAIM is so big?
NICE SURPRISE: Elle King. Turns out she's an Adele-reminding singer-songwriter with a wicked sense of humor. And plays the banjo.
COMPLETE UNKNOWN: Coleman Hell, out of Canada. Played a synth dance-oriented set that was just a lot of fun. I had never heard of this guy. Must check out new album that he says will be released this summer.
I missed all of the headliners. Don't care about Florence or the Killers (anymore), saw both them years ago and have no need to see them again. Would've love to see Deadmau5 but I was too tired to stick around that late. Oh well...
I liked what they've done for VIP (seems much better than in years past) and may have to consider getting VIP next year.
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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 6, 2016 14:00:10 GMT -5
What were the prices for beer and food in the VIP? I'm about to do the math on what I spent this weekend and I'm thinking cheaper beer in VIP would be worth the ticket price considering how much I imbibbed. Beers in VIP were $3.25, but only had Miller Lite and Summer Shandy. Red Bulls were $2.25. Water/Gatorade was $1.25. The food was free. Each day they had a different spread for lunch/dinner and kept it supplied for a couple of hours. Friday - chicken/steak skewers with veggies, burgers, fruit, pasta salad, dessert stuff Saturday - three way/cheese coney set up with hot dogs and pasta, dessert stuff Sunday - Pulled pork, mac & cheese, pasta salad and potato salad, dessert stuff We didn't purchase any food at all except on Sunday when the kid wanted a slice of pizza and ice cream. Other than that, we only purchased drinks. There were no performances in the tent, but there was a DJ. Regularly saw artists in there (Mowgli's, Grizzfolk, Nick Lachey, and a few others). Funny story, when we were waiting for the meet & greet with the Wombats, we were down by the river by the dressing rooms and I saw a band (couldn't recognize who they were), but they were all standing there looking at the water. I snapped a nice candid and we moved on. Later that night before the Killers, I saw one of them and approached him, told him I took a pic of them and showed him. He asked if I would send it to him, gave me his number, and I sent it to him. I asked him what band he was from, and he said Grizzfolk. I invited the Wombats to go out with us after the show. They said they would have if didn't have to leave at 9pm that night for Cali the next night. You definitely had a great VIP experience! I'm glad they stepped it up. I was spying on it from time to time and it looked great. Might be reconsidering for next year! |
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Post by funkymoses17 on Jun 6, 2016 16:26:37 GMT -5
This was my first time going to the festival and I was pleasantly surprised. I went to Bonnaroo last year so something that was quite smaller was a good change of pace. I've used those kind of wristbands before (minus the money aspect to them) and didn't see anyone having an issue and never had to wait in line to get in or anything like that. The leaving the festival out the main gate aspect is quite the nightmare though and I tend to agree about the Mainstage and 2nd stage should be switched. Is there a reason, with that type of layout, that they don't have a video screen behind the lights/sound tower for the mainstage? That seems horribly planned out. Otherwise I thought everything was laid out perfectly.
Best Act: Florence. They probably set the bar so high (PromoWest) in terms of having them end the festival that I don't think they'll ever be able to top it. It was my 2nd time seeing her and she was better this time around than the first even. The Killers were a close second though. Hearing all of those hits live was just downright awesome.
Worst Act: I don't know if I would even say "worst" but just acts I saw and didn't have nearly as much interest in them as I thought I would is a tie between The Neighborhood and Of Monster and Men. I thought both just kind of fell flat and really didn't do anything for me because of the unbalance of ballads and upbeat jams. I know I'm probably in the minority of that one though.
Best Surprise: HAIM. I thought for sure I would absolutely hate them but my girlfriend wanted to see them so we got up pretty close to the stage for it and I was thoroughly impressed. Great singers and show-women and I was floored as how well they could play the drugs and guitars.
Random Stuff: I caught the 2nd half of Big Grams after the monsoon hit and loved them. I knew I would but they were definitely fun to come out of hiding and see right away. We also sat and watched Cal Scruby's "performance" from afar and he somehow got audio for like 4 songs after his DJ's got caught in the storm and was fried and the promoters wouldn't let him get any extra time on his set. I don't necessarily think his music is good but was amazed at the following he has of diehard fans. Grimes is odd, we thought we'd like her but bailed pretty quickly into that performance. Deadmau5 was good. He's either a love/hate type act. Elle King was awesome and I'm surprised more country festivals don't book her. She was massive crossover appeal, although did anyone else notice she didn't play "America's Sweetheart" her most recent single? That was beyond puzzling.
The VIP deal sounds awesome and well worth it. I didn't spend enough on booze at the festival to really justify the extra amount for it it doesn't seem but still sounds good. I will say though that the VIP area takes up A LOT of the main stage side area and while that's nice for VIP people it really starts to push the general crowd (that makes up most of the attendance) away from the stage and narrows things even worse than they already are.
Overall I loved it though. Cinci is my favorite city outside of Columbus so I'd totally go again if they keep hitting homeruns with some of these band selections.
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Post by kbach on Jun 6, 2016 17:14:23 GMT -5
I had a blast at Bunbury. I really did not have any complaints at all. On my down Friday afternoon, I heard the lines were bad. I was dropped off by my uber at 1:55 and was in by 1:57. No issues at all. I was a little disappointed I missed Lydia. I saw Louis the Child at 2. They were pretty bad lol. A couple of kids hitting "play" on their laptops and dancing. We left that early and checked out The Shelters, who were great. Then, we walked around checking out Red Wanting Blue and Dear Hunter. We, then watched The Mowgli's, who were great. From there, we went to The River Stage to check out The Wombats. The stage was packed, and we couldn't see anything. I really don't know why they were on this stage. From there, we checked out X Ambassdors, who were great, Haim, meh, and The Killers.
I had 2 VIP passes (that I won), however the rest of our group had regular passes. The best part of Bunbury is being with all your buddies, so I didn't sit in the VIP section much. I only did for X Ambassadors, Killers, Of Monsters, and Florence. The VIP section was great though. Everyone was nice, the lines were short, and the food was delicious. The only issue was the exit that took 20 minutes to get from the stage to the exit after The Killers.
My top 5 were :
1. The Killers. They were incredible.
2. Of Monsters and Men
3. Florence
4. The Mowgli's
5. Big Grams
Honorable mentions - X Ambassadors, The Shelters, Elle King
Disappointments
1. Ice Cube. Checked out about 15 minutes of this. It was terrible.
2. Haim. They were so boring.
Other Random Notes
1. Deadmau5 was very meh to me. We left around 10:30. All of Saturday was pretty disappointing. The Neighbourhood were good, then we saw G Love, meh, then Big Grams, who were great, saw some Umphrey's Mcgee, who were pretty awesome, then Ice Cube and Deadmau5.
2. Bummed I missed J Roddy and Coleman Hell.
3. Can we ban people being on their phones? For many preformances, all I could see is people being on their phone videotaping it. I don't get it, are you really going to watch that? I loved when Florence had everyone put away their phones.
All in all, I had a great time. I will definitely be back next year, more than likely not in the VIP though, despite having a great time there.
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Post by funkymoses17 on Jun 6, 2016 17:30:10 GMT -5
After reading a lot of these thus far I'm really happy we decided to catch Big Grams (after hiding out under the bridge during the rain) then made our way over to catch Umphrey's and then just hang out around that area for Deadmau5 instead of going over to Ice Cube. Sounds like no one was impressed by him, although I'm sure the crowd was massive for it regardless.
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Post by maggie on Jun 7, 2016 0:58:27 GMT -5
Don't have time to write a full review but my favorite was definitely LANY. Loved them so much I saw them again tonight in Indy.
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Post by akronbunbarian on Jun 7, 2016 6:44:47 GMT -5
Overall I was very pleased with the festival. Don't know that I could ever go back to not being VIP now. Though the lineup appeared not fantastic when I first saw it, the quality of the acts I saw blew me away. My faves:
1. Killers
2. Diarrhea Planet - went to the merch tent 5 times to get a shirt.
3. The Worn Flints - never heard of them until a couple weeks ago. I was still shaking a half hour after they finished.
4. J Roddy
5. OMAM - liked them way more than I expected.
Honorable mention: Bayside, Elle, Mummies
I mostly skipped the poppy acts in favor of rock acts, but what I saw and didn't like:
1. Haim - couldn't wait for it to end so we could start waiting for Killers.
2. Deadmau5 - not only do I not get it, I am disturbed so many people are into that. It made me physically ill and I couldn't leave fast enough.
So I left very happy and am leaning to going back VIP next year instead of trying something else. We'll see. I was on the rail for at least half the acts I saw and the food and drink in VIP was satisfying.
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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 7, 2016 7:34:15 GMT -5
That was really odd that Elle King didn't play her current radio single. I only know two of her songs, didn't really care for the rest, so I would have been annoyed had I stuck around for her whole set. Great crowd for her though.
One thing I remembered...my friends used Parking Panda and they ended up paying more for their parking in the same lot that had open parking. They paid like 28 each day for a lot that was 25 on Fri/Sat and 15 on Sun.
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Post by evenpjflow on Jun 7, 2016 7:39:42 GMT -5
That was really odd that Elle King didn't play her current radio single. I only know two of her songs, didn't really care for the rest, so I would have been annoyed had I stuck around for her whole set. Great crowd for her though. One thing I remembered...my friends used Parking Panda and they ended up paying more for their parking in the same lot that had open parking. They paid like 28 each day for a lot that was 25 on Fri/Sat and 15 on Sun. Yikes that sucks about the parking.. Luckily I only had to pay $10 a day where I parked, so not too bad. |
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Post by evenpjflow on Jun 7, 2016 7:44:51 GMT -5
I really enjoyed seeing Lydia (even though the sound on that stage at the time was not the best), The Killers were an epic band for the Reds firework show, Bayside, Red Wanting Blue was great as always (but I'm bias as a fan), Here Come the Mummies - only caught some of this but the crowd seemed to be having a blast. Austin Plaine.
I thought The Neighbourhood set was the biggest disappointment. I thought it was extremely boring.
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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 7, 2016 7:51:14 GMT -5
I really enjoyed seeing Lydia (even though the sound on that stage at the time was not the best), The Killers were an epic band for the Reds firework show, Bayside, Red Wanting Blue was great as always (but I'm bias as a fan), Here Come the Mummies - only caught some of this but the crowd seemed to be having a blast. Austin Plaine. I thought The Neighbourhood set was the biggest disappointment. I thought it was extremely boring. The Neighbourhood set made me happy it rained. It ran them off the stage. God they were a sleeper. |
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Post by funkymoses17 on Jun 7, 2016 8:04:30 GMT -5
I really enjoyed seeing Lydia (even though the sound on that stage at the time was not the best), The Killers were an epic band for the Reds firework show, Bayside, Red Wanting Blue was great as always (but I'm bias as a fan), Here Come the Mummies - only caught some of this but the crowd seemed to be having a blast. Austin Plaine. I thought The Neighbourhood set was the biggest disappointment. I thought it was extremely boring. The Neighbourhood set made me happy it rained. It ran them off the stage. God they were a sleeper. Agreed. We stood around for the beginning of them and about 3 songs in were like, nope we need to take cover instead of sticking around for this, which stinks because I signed up to win free tickets to them for tomorrow night here in town haha. |
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Post by akronbunbarian on Jun 7, 2016 10:32:28 GMT -5
I really enjoyed seeing Lydia (even though the sound on that stage at the time was not the best), The Killers were an epic band for the Reds firework show, Bayside, Red Wanting Blue was great as always (but I'm bias as a fan), Here Come the Mummies - only caught some of this but the crowd seemed to be having a blast. Austin Plaine. I thought The Neighbourhood set was the biggest disappointment. I thought it was extremely boring. The Neighbourhood set made me happy it rained. It ran them off the stage. God they were a sleeper. I agree about Lydia. They were good but what went on with the subwoofer was bizarre. Got some good pics because I was right in front of them though. I personally think The Neighborhood are pretentious douches so I watched G Love instead. His set was good but cut short because of the rain. I was happy to have a VIP tent next to the stage. |
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Post by jenk on Jun 7, 2016 12:46:41 GMT -5
The Neighbourhood set made me happy it rained. It ran them off the stage. God they were a sleeper. I agree about Lydia. They were good but what went on with the subwoofer was bizarre. Got some good pics because I was right in front of them though. I personally think The Neighborhood are pretentious douches so I watched G Love instead. His set was good but cut short because of the rain. I was happy to have a VIP tent next to the stage. I was disappointed with The Neighbourhood as well. I like their songs individually, but they were not a good live act. |
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Post by euro60 on Jun 7, 2016 14:12:33 GMT -5
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Post by pdav on Jun 7, 2016 14:57:53 GMT -5
I'm interested to hear if you guys disliked Ice Cube so much just because you really don't like hip hop or if you thought he was a poor performer? I guess I'm in the minority here but I really enjoyed the set and everyone around me seemed very engaged.
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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 7, 2016 15:11:14 GMT -5
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Post by edpaffjr on Jun 7, 2016 15:16:52 GMT -5
Overall this was a really good year. I rarely saw any lines, which was easily the biggest improvement from last year. Occasionally I saw some lines for certain food but it always seemed to be moving and there were always nearby stands with much less demand. I had no issues with the wristbands, other than the obscene amount of money spent by me and my family. One thing that still needs some improvement revolves around the river stage. It was often so packed that I truly only watched a single performer and that was from way to the side. Maybe it's time to move this stage off the wall like the festival was forced to the year with high water. Or if it stays in the current location, perhaps a video screen on top of the stage would be nice so you could see the performance without actually being down on the wall. If there is anyway to get a larger floor section in front of the stage that could help alleviate some of the crowding too. Is parking a tour bus down there behind the stage really necessary?
Top 5 Acts for me: Of Monsters and Men (I've been waiting years to finally see them and they did not disappoint), The Killers, Florence & The Machine, X Ambassadors, The Mowgli's. Others I enjoyed: Umphrey's McGee, Elle King, Austin Plaine
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Post by funkymoses17 on Jun 7, 2016 15:27:44 GMT -5
I'm curious, with the size of the festival currently and the limitations the park overall has, where they would be able to move stages or expand? I know last year they had 4 stages but I'm struggling to find where they would have put a 4th stage. I like the area it's at and it's current setup but I don't know that they will ever be able to expand. They could definitely have added more people with just 3 stages though. I think that's something they should strongly consider next year, event if it's more local acts around the Midwest.
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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 8, 2016 8:29:30 GMT -5
I'm curious, with the size of the festival currently and the limitations the park overall has, where they would be able to move stages or expand? I know last year they had 4 stages but I'm struggling to find where they would have put a 4th stage. I like the area it's at and it's current setup but I don't know that they will ever be able to expand. They could definitely have added more people with just 3 stages though. I think that's something they should strongly consider next year, event if it's more local acts around the Midwest. I agree with adding more acts to the three stages rather than trying to find space for a fourth stage. But I don't think they will even bother considering how successful this year was...why add more acts if they can already fill the festival with attendees? |
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Post by funkymoses17 on Jun 8, 2016 8:46:17 GMT -5
I'm curious, with the size of the festival currently and the limitations the park overall has, where they would be able to move stages or expand? I know last year they had 4 stages but I'm struggling to find where they would have put a 4th stage. I like the area it's at and it's current setup but I don't know that they will ever be able to expand. They could definitely have added more people with just 3 stages though. I think that's something they should strongly consider next year, event if it's more local acts around the Midwest. I agree with adding more acts to the three stages rather than trying to find space for a fourth stage. But I don't think they will even bother considering how successful this year was...why add more acts if they can already fill the festival with attendees? Very good point. And now that they have an amount of money locked in that they can be accustomed to spending (I would imagine the 3 headliners and even Ice Cube weren't cheap) they know they can get some pretty big names and really good 2nd and 3rd line of a card and not have to expand and get the same results and just strive to do some improvements instead of spending more money on stages and acts. (by improvements I mean put a dang LED screen behind the two lighting towers so people behind it can see haha) |
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Post by edpaffjr on Jun 8, 2016 8:53:28 GMT -5
They had a screen back there in the past, not sure why it was removed. And the 4th stage last year was the permanent stage near Sawyer Point Stage that was used for VIP this year.
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Post by cincinnatisound on Jun 8, 2016 8:58:36 GMT -5
I agree with adding more acts to the three stages rather than trying to find space for a fourth stage. But I don't think they will even bother considering how successful this year was...why add more acts if they can already fill the festival with attendees? Very good point. And now that they have an amount of money locked in that they can be accustomed to spending (I would imagine the 3 headliners and even Ice Cube weren't cheap) they know they can get some pretty big names and really good 2nd and 3rd line of a card and not have to expand and get the same results and just strive to do some improvements instead of spending more money on stages and acts. (by improvements I mean put a dang LED screen behind the two lighting towers so people behind it can see haha) If it was up to me, Sawyer point would become the main stage and Yeatman's cove the second. There is just sooo much more room around the back and sides that people can comfortable sit and congregate. The Yeatman's cove stage is just uncomfortable for those in the back and sides (those FUCKING TREES on the left). Also, the River Stage would become the "local and regional act" stage. The Wombats were waaaay too big for that stage (just like Catfish were last year). I think to have all of the local bands throughout the day at this stage would be a good way to keep things organized and I think a few local acts deserve a nice late-night slot on the river. |
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Post by akronbunbarian on Jun 8, 2016 9:43:12 GMT -5
I read somewhere that they had 46,000 people total this year. Isn't that down about 10,000 from last year? Is that still considered a success? I mean, they could have made more money anyway but I'm just wondering how they feel about it.
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